tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post8743126946542597714..comments2023-10-21T07:44:20.549-04:00Comments on The Existence Machine: "fuck indie especially for saying fuck you to its own history of saying fuck you"Richardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08014014605639738887noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-58857525466335470682009-10-24T20:26:04.138-04:002009-10-24T20:26:04.138-04:00I'd tend to agree with Spaceman: the rock avan...I'd tend to agree with Spaceman: the rock avant-garde was already bourgeois. Actually, all avant-garde art is bourgeois; it's precisely the guilt of the educated classes, their anxiety and feeling of inauthenticity, that necessitates radicalism. Moreover, much as I hate to be that guy, it behooves me to add that reliance on theory and elaborate justifications for taste are the accomplices of class snobbery as often as some kind of rigor. <br /><br />Sonic Youth are pretty bourgey, and they're definitely classicist over iconoclast. But many artists who routinely get a free pass were equally so. <br /><br />My feeling is that the logic connecting the ends values of avant-gardism with the means values of such things as iconoclasm, extremism, antagonism, etc. is underexamined and taken for granted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-62749576523686595472009-05-14T18:46:00.000-04:002009-05-14T18:46:00.000-04:00I appreciated your comments. I've been following t...I appreciated your comments. I've been following the conversation on Sonic Youth on the blogs you mention, but frustrated by the fact that I agree (well, mostly agree) with k-punk about Sonic Youth, yet at the same time really like SY (even a lot of their totally "uncool" '00s stuff). I guess, this fundamental contradiction is only important if you care about all the levels of meaning of bands like Sonic Youth who are self-consciously hip (to being hip) and thus unhip or boring to people like k-punk. I like his writing a lot but these distinctions are unimportant to me these days. <br /><br />I also think k-punk indulges in a kind of nostalgia for periods or genres (like no wave) that were neither as forward-looking nor self-immolating as he likes to think. Culture doesn't exist in a vacuum - it happens in context. I mean, jeez, Brian Eno curated the No Wave compilation. It's two steps from Eno to Peter Gabriel to Phil Collins.<br /><br />Blah.spacemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556503201815246287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-36492393915812527912009-05-14T16:17:00.000-04:002009-05-14T16:17:00.000-04:00Well, I don't know what to tell you. If you dislik...Well, I don't know what to tell you. If you dislike them that much, then obviously it seems obvious that there is no reason why <I>you</I> should care about Sonic Youth at all. I can only say that your description of them does not gibe with my experience of their music.<br /><br />Of course, liking or disliking them was hardly the point of the post.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08014014605639738887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-3813319453113403452009-05-14T15:39:00.000-04:002009-05-14T15:39:00.000-04:00i really don't understand why people love sonic yo...i really don't understand why people love sonic youth so much (and i really really don't get it with pavement). SY is better musically than pavement (that is, they can play their instruments a bit and have a nice guitar sound) but i still don't get why disaffected white-guy-who-can't-sing vocals and pretentious lyrics over chiming guitars (with no melody or memorable riff in sight) and plodding drums is music we should celebrate, revere and write graduate theses on. cardinal sins of this kind of indie music are: 1) there's no self-expression going on, just cool posturing; 2) there's no soul, no heart, no sadness, no real emotion, not to mention no balls at all. the rolling stones are a thousand times more artistic, mysterious, and enlightening than sonic youth while being way more influential and successful. radiohead, while lacking range, have far better musicianship and songwriting skills than SY. spoon kicks SY's ass at record production, atmosphere, mood, even coolness. wilco, from summerteeth to a ghost is born, blows SY out of the water on all counts. so why should i care about sonic youth? 80's babies, enlighten me, if you can.Stephen Tully Dierkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01499679865436285505noreply@blogger.com