tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post9157483888679142479..comments2023-10-21T07:44:20.549-04:00Comments on The Existence Machine: Sam Harris v. Andrew SullivanRichardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08014014605639738887noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-61566538713014097352007-04-10T16:07:00.000-04:002007-04-10T16:07:00.000-04:00These days the political impact of religion is bec...These days the political impact of religion is becoming more and more difficult to overcome.<BR/> I link it to the outpouring of brainwashing on the American public ; it's merely one component in a comprehensive agenda of mind control.<BR/>Contrariwise, God is essentially so nebulous a basic proposition that rebutting it is senseless : one would have to reject a basic impression of perceived order and predictability in the world.<BR/>The baggage tagged onto this is where the mischief lies. Religion is merely the stretching of analogy far beyond the bounds of reliability, throwing in social goals to make the mix acceptable plus whatever fiction can be thrown onto this 'basic truth' without it becoming thrown out by those wishing to believe - a low bar.opithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01621946866211400380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-59903938772625876282007-04-07T20:39:00.000-04:002007-04-07T20:39:00.000-04:00Someone should explain to them that 911 was an ins...Someone should explain to them that 911 was an inside-job. Surely only the most tone-deaf to reason and empirical knowledge could deny that having looked at the freefall collapse of WTC7. That and a million other bits of evidence that conflict with the official conspiracy theory of fundamentalist Muslims. Nice to see ye olds Slave Mentality still has the good slaves...I mean citizens still buying that load of garbage that the elites and their mass medias feed the public.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-19759018613968111302007-04-06T03:33:00.000-04:002007-04-06T03:33:00.000-04:00Being Good Friday, life's a little short to read a...Being Good Friday, life's a little short to read all of this debate and counter-debate. But, yes, religion requires far much more to survive (ie politics, culture et al), than just faith. And because there are so many religions (the Sunni and Shia distinction would be hilariously Swiftian if it wasn't so catastrophically to people's lives) really it IS political. Yet, there's something else. I was anti all religions in many ways - and still shudder at Tony Blair of George Bush using them "in the name of", they may as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden - yet, working in Manchester's regeneration areas, it is the faith communities who are first to go in, last to leave. The city council wants a casino (or an Asda or a Tesco) and the only voice of "reason" here is from the Bishops, who actually believe in something that can't be measured in pounds and pence.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05651417997212482246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-6284919936397812462007-04-05T09:26:00.000-04:002007-04-05T09:26:00.000-04:00You're right, we probably aren't going to agree on...You're right, we probably aren't going to agree on this. But I want to clarify a couple things.<BR/><BR/>First, I do <I>not</I> think that religion belongs in a different category than economics or politics. In part, I am contending that that's what Harris & Sullivan assume, even as they start off by agreeing about the political danger posed by Islam. I'm saying that economics and politics affect and determine religious belief (and of course the opposite is also true, which may be what you mean).<BR/><BR/>Second, I did not say that "faith as a concept exist[s] without any relation to social or political propositions". I merely said that faith, as such, is not the same as religious belief, or religious practice. Sullivan in his bumbling way is trying to say this, but Harris doesn't know what he's talking about.<BR/><BR/>I'll leave it there for now... except to say that I think the Bush crew are dangerous for a multitude of reasons, including their religious conviction. I'm not discounting that.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08014014605639738887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23471801.post-42441451919025624452007-04-05T06:44:00.000-04:002007-04-05T06:44:00.000-04:00"But he doesn't quite say this (or, if he does, it..."But he doesn't quite say this (or, if he does, it's more because he's an inept debater). He really says this of his faith. I think atheists all too often refuse to see a distinction."<BR/><BR/>I did think he was an inept debater, as it happens. In the event that I thought faith as a concept existed without any relation to social or political propositions I'd be inclined to agree with you, but the fact is that it not the case. People do base all sorts of political, social and many other sorts of stances on their faith and refuse to accept any form of evidence or argument to refute them. Do you recall that Whitehouse quotation about the faith and reality based communities, for example? <BR/><BR/>As I suspect we are unlikely to agree on this, I'll not go into detail on the rest, but the essential problem I have with your argument is that you seem to assume that religion belongs in a different category to economics or politics and I really don't think it's a separable issue.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03316636310435451222noreply@blogger.com